| A Conversation with Contributors to Thieves' World: Turning Points | |||||||||
| Interview by Steven H Silver | |||||||||
| October 2002 | |||||||||
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Diana L. Paxson:
The series was ended rather abruptly. If I had known the last volume was going to be the last, I would have concluded Lalo's
story arc. That has been like an itch I can't scratch.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
Oh, there are several good answers to this. Primarily, I missed the interaction with the other writers. It was great
fun to scheme out the stories. I loved calling Carolyn Cherryh up and asking, "Where's Ischade at this point in time?" Or
calling Janet Morris to tell her, "Guess what I'm planning for Zip?" Or "Sure, I don't mind if Tempus rapes Chenaya, but don't
expect her to take it lying down." So to speak. I've lost track of Janet, but Lynn and Carolyn and Diana Paxson, I still count
as dear friends, and I loved the opportunity to work with them. There was terrific give-and-take among the Thieves' World writers.
Secondly, I also missed what I considered to be a very good vehicle for heroic fantasy. It's a sub-genre that's generally slid into disrespect. But Thieves' World was so unique and so successful that it commanded both attention and respect on its own terms. There were so many stories -- and so many kinds of stories -- that could be told within the Thieves' World framework. Remember an old television series called The Naked City? It had an opening that went, "There are eight million stories in the naked city...." And that was Sanctuary. Thirdly, I suppose I should admit I missed the money. Thieves' World was a small gold mine.
Diana L. Paxson:
Yes, I worked out exactly what happened to everybody except Lalo himself, whose fate, after he went off with that caravan, is still a bit
obscure. More information about them will appear in future stories.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
The original Thieves' World master agreement gave all of us the right to try to market our characters. Janet [Morris] published
a number of Tempus novels. Andy [Offut] published one or two Shadowspawn novels. Marion Zimmer Bradley published a novel with Lythande. David
Drake did one or two novels with his character. I always kind of wanted to do a Chenaya novel. She was undergoing considerable
change when the series ended. But I was tied up with other book contracts and never got around to it.
Ten years or so after the Thieves' World series ended, Stephen Pagel, then working at White Wolf Books, approached me about contributing a story for the Bending the Landscape: Fantasy anthology. You may remember this anthology was to contain stories involving gay characters and gay themes. Almost immediately, I thought about Dismas and Gestus, two of Chenaya's gladiator side-kicks. Dismas and Gestus had been lovers from the beginning. I asked him what he'd think about a Thieves' World story, if Lynn would okay it. He loved the idea. I loved the idea. And Lynn [Abbey] loved the idea. I thought wouldn't it be cool if it could revive some interest in the series. And it did, I'm very happy to say.
Jody Lynn Nye:
Yes. I discovered it about the time volume 9 was being published, and at once went back to read the others.
Dennis L. McKiernan:
You betcha. I believe that I have all the Thieves' World books (some still packed in boxes from our move to Tucson, but
nevertheless I have'em). I really enjoyed the series.
Selina Rosen:
No. I didn't read any of the books till I was asked to write for the series. I think I was chosen because my style and humor matched what
Lynn was looking for. She also knew that I take editorial direction without shrieking and always make my deadlines.
I own a micro press (Yard Dog Press) and I know what it's like to work with people who don't take editorial direction well and or don't meet deadlines. It can be a real nightmare. I don't envy Lynn's position. She's basically assembled a team of writers (some of us who had never written for the series before, because some of the former writers didn't return) who each hopefully bring something different to the mix while staying within the confines of the universe. Oh... and they have to be able to work together and meet deadlines. Add to that the fact that this was a wildly popular series which went through a long hiatus so that there is much expectation, and you've got the recipe for a writer's and editor's worst nightmare.
Raymond E. Feist:
Actually, I read it for professional reasons; I was part of the group at Midkemia Press that did the city encounter section of the
original Thieves' World FRP game that was published to complement the books.
Raymond E. Feist:
Little, really. One was a gaming construct, and the other was a literary construct. In Thieves' World, I had a writers
bible and Lynn to call; in Midkemia I've got maps, and notes, and pages after pages of histories. There is more than twenty years
worth of world building in Midkemia. If I want to know what happens when I turn left on a certain street in Krondor and what I'll
see, I call my friend Steve Abrams and he breaks out a map and tells me what's in every store on the boulevard.
Selina Rosen:
A ready audience. With my own novels, I have to find an audience. Thieves' World already has one, so all I have to do is write
a story that those fans are going to like, and hopefully I've done that.
Raymond E. Feist:
It's like playing in another kid's sandbox, with their toys. It allows you to deal with structures that are already in place, so you
can concentrate on characters and not have to worry about world-building.
Jody Lynn Nye:
Shared worlds have to have tighter overall guidance. I've worked on shared worlds before, such as The Fleet (edited
by David Drake and my husband, Bill Fawcett). Ground rules have to be established to cover every contingency that might arise in the creative
minds of the pool of authors, so no one is stepping too hard on anyone else's toes -- no easy task. The basis of the world comes from the
creator or creators, in this case Bob and Lynn; now just Lynn. With a single collaborator, both of us establish the world and negotiate
changes. In a collaboration, even if one doesn't like one's co-author (and there are long-established published pairings who don't speak
to one another and communicate solely by e-mail and letter), one must diplomatically approach the other to settle disagreements. In a
shared world, if one has a turf problem, the 'moderator' can step in to help. That's a little easier.
Selina Rosen:
Robin Bailey and I kicked some things around -- we do many of the same conventions together and have been friends for years so it seemed
natural for us to discuss the project.
I talked to Lynn a lot to make sure I was giving her what she needed. I read the Thieves' World bible Lynn shipped us all over and over again and read through the books. I don't believe I talked to any of the other writers during the process of writing the story. If I did and I'm leaving someone out, they can slap me next time they see me.
Raymond E. Feist:
I did very little, actually, because Lynn and I had agreed that I'd do a story that sort of took place "meanwhile, in another part of
town," while all the big action took place "over there." So I read most of the other stories, but didn't talk to the other authors.
Dennis L. McKiernan:
I saw the other authors' characters very little and was in contact with but two of the authors. However, my story was finished
waaaaay ahead of the others, and it was sent out to the other authors, and so that might be the reason Halott and Rogi popped up
elsewhere. Besides, I did start and end my story with two rather nice celestial events (which I checked out with some astronomer
friends), along with a spectacular public event, and they seemed to provide the other authors some things they could reference in their stories.
Jody Lynn Nye:
Plenty. I think he's a good character with lots of potential. I'm enjoying his sense of humor. His contrition doesn't change his
fundamental character, which does tend to see the funny side. His humanity was wasted in the cult, and now that he is free and
following a calling he at last has something to lose that he knows is worth keeping. I know a good deal about herbal magic and
medicine, so I can draw on knowledge I already have, and concentrate on Pel's plight in the midst of the stimulating environment
that is 'modern day' Sanctuary. Will he be forced to reveal himself as Wrath? Will he ally with one side or the other of the
government? What will his relationship be with former members of the Hand?
Selina Rosen:
A lot... if I have a question, I call Lynn. I saw the Irrune as being very conditioned for an independent lifestyle in the streets
of Sanctuary. Also, the character I created seemed to balance out the characters created by the other authors. In other words, I
decided we needed a big fighting bitch with an attitude, and at least to me such a character would most realistically be spawned
from the Irrune people.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
Lynn was very clear that the new Thieves' World series was to take place forty or fifty years after the end of the
first series. In fact, in the planning stages, Lynn and I referred to it as Thieves' World: The Next Generation. Too
much time had gone by. Rather than retell origin stories and explain old relationships and old histories, it was an easier, cleaner
task to sort of wipe the slate. The background remained in place, and the concept still remained pretty much the same. But face
it -- time had passed in the real world, too. Some of the original writers weren't available anymore. New writers would be
bringing new characters and new approaches. It made sense for all of us to start fresh.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
Well, who knows. Right now, the rules pretty much say let the past alone. But you'll note that Regan Vigeles bears the same last
name as Chenaya and her father, Lowan. So he's related. And there are not-so-subtle clues that some member of that family -- some
years ago -- did something so horrible that all the Vigeles property throughout the empire was forfeited, all their fortunes
seized, and the Vigeles name made something shameful. So Regan doesn't even use his real name. Very few people know he is a
Vigeles. To most of the world, he's "Spider."
Now, what happened to bring such shame on the Vigeles name? And is that a Chenaya story? Muhahahahaha! Perhaps someday I'll get to tell it.
Selina Rosen:
As I told Lynn when she first approached me, I'm not used to playing in other people sand boxes. I'm used to writing my own
universes, basically being a god there, having to answer to no one but my editor and publisher, and I have a
publisher -- thank G-d -- who basically lets me write just exactly what I want to write.
I had never done anything like this so there was much studying, reading (especially since I hadn't read the books before), writing and rewriting. I didn't want to let Lynn, the other writers or the series fans down. It's a lot of pressure to write for fans who are expecting a certain style, charm and ambiance and who have been starved for their favorite series for so long. It's hard to write what you think they want and still stay true to your own style.
Diana L. Paxson:
My specialty seems to be domestic relationships. In the first series, Lalo was one of the few decent family men around, just trying to
make a living in the middle of chaos. Now the focus is on his daughter, who is dealing with the daily challenges of keeping an
inn while dealing with her own life. There aren't very many mature mother-figures in fantasy.
Dennis L. McKiernan:
I wanted Halott, my Necromancer, to start and end the story with some spectacular bit of magic, and yet I wanted to tell the story
that I did. I originally considered crossing someone over from Mithgar (my series) but decided that it would complicate things
too much, and so I crossed over my protagonists from a wholly new world. I also wanted to somewhat showcase Rogi, Halott's
somewhat inept assistant.
Raymond E. Feist:
Lynn and I talked about the fact that early Thieves' World stuff was almost totally devoid of humor. The second volume
even talked about that, but the stories still tended to the "serious" fantasy side. I just wanted to do something silly and swim
against the tide, basically. I also didn't want to do anything
that screamed "sequel" or promised another adventure with Jake. If I ever do another Thieves' World tale, it'll
be with different characters.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
I've already agreed to do a story for the next volume, and Regan and Aaliyah and Ronal will be my continuing core cast. I
am fairly pleased with Aaliyah. Sanctuary had never had a shape-changer before. And the cast has always been a little bit
white-bread, so I wanted a black woman on Sanctuary's streets. Yeah, she is kind of exotic and intriguing, but she's made so
because we don't see into her mind at all. We don't get a look at her thought processes. At least not in this story.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
Well, the "Superman" syndrome really got out of hand. Tempus, Roxanne, Ischade, Chenaya. Toss in a sometimes-active Vashanka, a
couple of God-babies. Even Lalo the Limner, a character I really loved, developed incredible super powers. I think, for me at
least, that was getting boring. You had to wonder why the hell the normal citizenry wasn't fleeing the city in screaming
droves. The upside, however, is that all those Supermen began to make the milder characters, by contrast, look really
good -- Andy's Shadowspawn, Drake's caravan master. I even put Chenaya off-stage for a story so that I could concentrate on
her normal-guy partner, Dayrne.
Also, the magic got really out of hand. Alfred Bester originally created a fairly restrictive magic system for the series. It got tossed aside much too quickly and the only magic rule that remained was "anything goes!" One of the things I wanted to achieve with "Ring of Sea and Fire," was make sure that everyone remembered the magic was still somewhat dampened in Sanctuary.
Diana L. Paxson:
The magical battles kept escalating, and we had to keep upping the ante to keep pace. It's necessary to change things to keep
the challenges and the action going, but I hope we can keep the focus on character rather than fireworks.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
There are the obvious ones. New characters and a new political situation. I think Lynn intends that each story should stand on its
own this time around. At least, that's my impression. Stories in the old series had become just a little too much like chapters in
a book. Chapters are not necessarily good stories -- they're fragments of something larger.
Diana L. Paxson:
One major difference is in the status and power of the various deities and their priesthoods. Sanctuary is still shell-shocked,
and the gods, like their worshippers, are laying low. Admittedly, things did get a bit out of hand towards the end of the earlier
series, but I hope that some of the gods and goddesses will wake up and get active again.
Diana L. Paxson:
Cappen Varra -- it's our loss that Poul Anderson is no longer around to add his own brand of magic to Sanctuary.
Selina Rosen:
Dennis McKiernan's, secondary character Rogi. Why? Well because he gave the character a huge shwang with a dragon tattooed on it, which
of course gets him at least mentioned in damn near every story in Turning Points, including mine.
Dennis L. McKiernan:
Well, I haven't seen all the other authors' stories, but I do like Raymond Feist's character, as well as Robin Bailey's
two. I really like Halott and Rogi, though, and I don't think I'd trade. [smiles] However, if you are referring to the previous
characters in the series, I rather like Shadowspawn.
Raymond E. Feist:
Boy, that's a tough one to answer. I like a bunch of them. I'm a sucker for quirky characters, and there are a bunch of them
in Sanctuary. I'm writing this from Scotland, so I don't have the other stories with me, but I'd have to say the fugitive
character, the scholar [Heliz Yunz] who's the last of the supposedly destroyed magical order appeals to me as much as anyone else.
Robin Wayne Bailey:
Oh, damn. I'm having my first "senior moment!" I'm forgetting the name of the wizard [Enas Yorl] whose house keeps moving from place
to place and whose form changes uncontrollably. I found him fascinating. So much so, that he was the very first resident of
Sanctuary that Chenaya sought out on her own to meet and talk with -- and to have sex with, the little teen-aged slut.
Jody Lynn Nye:
Lynn's Molin Torchholder, Bob's storyteller [Hakiem], and Diana Paxson's balance-maintaining magician [Lalo].
Steven H Silver is a four-time Hugo Nominee for Best Fan Writer and the editor of the anthologies Wondrous Beginnings, Magical Beginnings, and Horrible Beginnings (DAW Books, January, February and March, 2003). In addition to maintaining several bibliographies and the Harry Turtledove website, Steven is heavily involved in convention running and publishes the fanzine Argentus. | ||||||||
 
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