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Don't even pretend that you all didn't see Gordon Freeman win the greatest video game hero contest at Gamespot. Us nerds have similar surfing habits. It was a travesty...only Mario could ever claim that title.
Which leads me to my new thought...who is the greatest sci fi hero of all time?
Paul Atreides?
Luke Skywalker?
Arthur Dent?
HAL 9000? (greatest villan?)
I'd mention Harry Potter but Brian has been seen lurking about again...
Thoughts?
Miles Vorkosigan
Jerry Cornelius, hands down.
What are you talking about!?!? Sure, Mario is more iconic, but Freeman is an absolutely way better hero. Mario is a fat hallucinating p*ssy whipped idiot who's idea of a good time is cosplaying as a racoon while "hopping on" anthropomorphized turtles (could it be that our tubby mustachioed hero is in fact a blue balled rapist with a proclivity for sodomy and zoophilia?). Freeman on the other hand is a crow bar weilding theoretical physicist who kicks the Combine's ass with embarassing regularity: the same Combine that defeated the combined forces of Earth in seven hours. (P.S. How is Harry Potter Sci-fi?)
As for your question, I'd have to go with Guy Montag simply because he's the first person who popped into mind. Or maybe Major Kusanagi. Most of the sci fi I watch or read doesn't really deal with heroism: my answer would be different if the discussion was simply regarding protagonists in general.
Jerry Cornelius would convert you with his pressurized needle gun for an answer like that, all while decked out in the very latest of mod fashions, and listening to the Beatles remasters.
I have mixed feelings about Gordon's victory, but these peaked when he was up against Link in the final round. Once he beat Link, it seemed clear that Gamespot voters are PC-centric, and the victory over Mario came as no shock. But I was happy for the win, and hoping he can take a Nobel next year...you know, for science.
Gordon is a great hero, but I am an old-school gamer, and I know what characters like Pacman and Mario did for the entire video game industry. That makes them heroes to me.
Elric of Melnibone
John Carter of Mars
Say what you like about Gordon Freeman, but he has good taste in reading material. Just check his locker.
What is in his locker? Do you have a link to a photo?
In the first HALF-LIFE, Gordon Freeman has a couple of books in his locker that I recognized from having edited them. Maybe MarcL knows where to find a screenshot, since he wrote 'em.
re: Gordon Freeman's reading material
http://www.eeggs.com/items/6913.html
btw, Gus, I would agree with you - if it is in fact your position - that Mario is the most IMPORTANT character in video games. I mean he is to video games what Mickey Mouse is to animation, but like Mickey he's just kinda bland.
and hey, Marc, if Obama can snag one...
I thought this thread was about Jerry Cornelius!?
TRISKAIDEKAPHOBIA
Ungh! 13!!! Nooooo
Anti thirteeno el right pronto for real-o!
Avada Kedavra!
ארבעאחדארבע
But can you identify the folded-up recipe that Gordon is using as a bookmark in his copy of The Orchid Eater?
If I may add a more obscure name:
George F O'Brien, A.K.A. The Langri of planet also named Langri and Elder of the "Plan."
As for heroine:
Lissa, Ramoth's rider
Heroic Duo:
Draftees William Mandella and Marygay Potter, who served in the Tauran War.
Anti-Hero (but survivor):
Victor Apfel (next door neighbor to the late Charles Kluge and who befriended the late Lisa Foo.)
Most spiritualistic and karma enriched Hero:
Mahasamatman, who dropped the Maha and the -atman and called himself Sam, AKA Kalkin, Siddhartha, Binder of Demons, and the Buddha. But really, just call him Sam, friend of Captain Jan Olvegg.
Tiger posted Miles Vorkosigan
I concur for the Hero who overcame physical limitations on his mobility, but not his spirit.
A folded-up recipe, Sam? I thought that was a piece of bacon he was using as a bookmark!
I would love to see a bracket set up in here for us to vote on the greatest scifi hero, like gamespot did. It must have brought thousands of people into their site every day. My kids and I checked on it several times a day (and bought stuff from all of their advertisers, of course.)
I guess I need to re-think my initial problem with the outcome. Maybe Mario is the most important hero of all time, but Gordon represents a more evolved hero, a result of the landscape that Mario created.
Science fiction is a much more established field than video games. I do not know of a singularly iconic figure like Mario in the scifi field, unless you are strictly a movie person, in which case Luke Skywalker or James Kirk come to mind.
Most "SF" heroes came from either the pulp era (roughly the 1910s forward) or from comic books or strips. Think Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, Carson of Venus, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Captain Future, Conan, Jirel of Joiry, and then years later characters like Brackett's Eric John Stark or even Moorcock's tragic hero Elric. Save for Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, and Captain Future, all the rest are either fantasy or science-fantasy (or planetary romance if you prefer).
While there have been Good Guys (or Gals) in recurring contemporary SF/F series (think Morgaine of CJ Cherryh's first series, Gate of Ivrel, etc.) they haven't risen to the status of "iconic" heroes. Along the way in SF history (and this is just a rough, working theory) SF decided that out and out _heroes_ weren't its cup of tea. SF writers began (or continued in some cases) writing about dystopias, eco-disasters, anti-heroes, and all the problems perceived to be plaguing Mankind, and forgot about anything positive--like the Hero.
In 60s comics, DC took the bait and rather than giving their superheroes their required fatal flaw or weakness, instead began to strip them of everything that _made_ them heroes. Remember the issue of Green Lantern about drug addiction? Remember when writer Denny O'Neill began to write Batman with all sorts of internal problems and doubts, to the point where his motives and very existence were thought to be close to criminal?
We will always need the Hero in various guises, and this is why (I think) there is such a resurgence of late in the works of Brackett and Hamilton, and C.L. Moore, Doc Savage, The Shadow, The Avenger, The Spider, and many others from the pulp era. We need heroes who are just enough like Us, but somehow rise above the common man, and idealize what we know to be good in the human spirit.
Long live Superman. And the Eric John Starks, and Captain Futures, and Doc Savages, and the Shadows of the world. And yes, even the Conans. :-)
Conan was my second choice to Jerry Cornelius.
I haven't ever read any of this Elric crap and I wish Moorcock hadn't written it, as it somewhat obscures the pristine shining diamond that is JC
Nothing is better than stabbing someone in the face while attempting to rescue your sister from your brother inside your father's skull as "All You Need Is Love" plays in the background and you contemplate an upcoming 2,000 year cycle of Satanic rule.
Where in Tarzan, Mack Bolan, John Carter of Mars, Mike Hammer, Carson of Venus, Remo Williams, Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Bill: The Galactic Hero, Captain Future, or Conan even (especially in Super Mario) could you find something like:
"This was a gift-wrapped, throwaway age... Now the gift wrapping is off, it's being thrown away."
?
re: Batman
I am not normally a namedropper, but I got to meet Denny O'Neil at a Comicon in Portland in the mid eighties. While all of the other kids idolized Michael Jordan and David Lee Roth, I got the thrill of a lifetime to have him autograph my Spidey and Iron man comics.
Comics came of age about 20 years after the sf digests, as near as I can tell. Video games about 20 years later, at least.
A true hero has the same flaws as all of us, but utilizes his or her strengths to the utmost.
GusG-
There are no true heroes, unless you mean the sandwich and I prefer the submarine.
A fascinating sci-fi character should have no limitations, like my man Cornelius.
GusG:
I could have misunderstood what you were asking. Rereading your several posts in this thread, I get the impression you're asking one thing and I, and a few others, are responding to something else.
Your terms "...greatest sci fi hero.." and 'iconic' hero may appear to be your asking for the most recognizable fictional main character (protagonist) that is easily, readily, and fondly remembered by the shear fact that almost every follower of the sci fi has read and enjoyed the stories (novels, short stories, etc.) involving that character. A popularity contest as to the most well known main character. Hero = Main character.
However, I and a few others, took your question to mean something more along the line of classical college Intro To Western Lit class meaning;
a protagonist who, when faced with a major challenge (physical, mental, social, cultural, religious belief, displeasure of the Gods, and so forth) or a combination of challenges, faces them with the resources available and uses his resources is such a manner to overcome and succeed in his goal regardless of the efforts of his antagonist(s) directed efforts to block the protagonist.
And this fictional protagonist's character is memorable specifically because he / she has overcome the adversarial conflict with wit, humor, quick thinking, physical strength, dedication, stubbornness, mental focus, and none of the Oops, My Bad, or "Dang, Missed it by that much" that mere common people would have.
In short, A fictional character that is intended to be a role model which an individual would want to emulate in his real life. Popularity of reading the story is not involved.
In other words:
In the field of Mystery and Detective writing, Sherlock Homes would qualify as an iconic hero by what I gather is your definition. IMHO, the more iconic hero (my definition) of that field would be the character of Nero Wolf by the author Rex Stout. I suspect few of the general public has any knowledge of the Nero Wolf stories.
In my prior post in this thread, my nominations were to my understanding of you request, not to yours. Sorry.
Phil
?
I sure hope that I didn't give the impression that I was seriously debating Gus, especially since the whole Mario vs Freeman thing is is a frivolous aside: an attempt at a cheap laugh on my part... its not even the thread topic. In fact I think he summarized the criteria for a hero perfectly when he said that the best hero's are those who are just as flawed as normal people but use their skills to the utmost and persevere. One could elaborate on that but anyone who is inclined can just go read "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" or one of Campbell's other works. Btw, best hero of all time: probably Odysseus even though he was a bit of a bastard. Also I think my choice Montag can be seen to fit that criteria quite well, I just still can't think of many sci fi heroes (someone like Deckard doesn't count, nothing really heroic about what he did)
Hey folks, no offense taken at all. I am glad that you care enough about this topic to take the time to spell it out in such detail and have fun with it too. If Brian and I can remain friends after all of the crap we have thrown at each other, then the rest of you have nothing to worry about.
Brian, I disagree. I believe that there are heroes. It is a matter of definition.
Phil, thank you for your thoughtful reply. Those distinctions are important in defining a hero, and are probably at the core of my problem with Freeman beating Mario.
I love the suggestions of Conan and Odysseus as heroes!
Science Fiction may be to complex to have the transparent heroes that the simpler genres embrace. It does have heroes, though!
Good words, GusG
Yet I insist: In real life there are no White Hats. Everyone's hat is grey, seriously. You're talking about fictions walking the earth.
Real heroes usually turn out to be made from the same stuff as us.
F. Scott Fitzgerald's quote "Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy" is as apt today as ever
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Kerik
Brian Jackson
Wow, how about expanding the definition of hero? Hari Seldon is every bit as heroic by attempting to stem the tide of galactic barbarism, as any of the gun toting, sword weilding, ass kickers mentioned in this discussion.
Good point, econtheory
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