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F&SF Forum » The Process of Writing

Game of Thrones

(25 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by geoffhart1962
  • Latest reply from geoffhart1962

  1. geoffhart1962
    Member

    In case you're wondering what George Martin has been doing instead of finishing Game of Thrones:
    https://boingboing.net/2015/08/29/the-world-of-ice-and-fire-the.html

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. Steve R.
    Member

    For reference:

    A Wiki of Ice and Fire

    Game of Thrones Wiki

    Differences between books and TV series

    Overall, I have found the divergence of the TV from the books to be beneficial overall. The TV series has taken out a lot of side-themes and back stories which keeps the plot more focused and moving.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. geoffhart1962
    Member

    Steve: Fully agreed. I think part of the problem Martin is having is that he's spawned so many subplots that he's lost the heart of the story.

    His editor really needs to sit down with him and say: "Look, George: who are the two characters who emerge at the end, bloody but unbowed, as king and queen? Who do they kill to get there? Well... write their story. Ignore everyone else. You can always come back and write some side novels about your favorite peripheral characters. Heck, if nothing else, churn out Hodor's novel: all you have to do is type 'Hodor' 100K times. Fans will love it!" *G*

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Steve R.
    Member

    Washington Post article: If you love ‘Game of Thrones,’ don’t nag George R.R. Martin to finish the books

    In the immortal words of Jack Swigert "Houston we have a problem". Martin is evidently having trouble keeping up with his writing. Ms Rosenberg writes " .. that the HBO adaptation of the series will bypass his books starting in this new season.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. geoffhart1962
    Member

  6. Steve R.
    Member

    Finally, has "Game of Thrones" started to move into concluding the series? Episode 4 of Season 6 is strongly pointing that in that direction. Only time will tell.

    I have really enjoy the series, but at a certain point every series needs to conclude. I hope that "Game of Thrones" is moving in that direction.

    Season 5, ended with a massive number of unresolved story lines. Season 6 got off to a very slow start that really didn't seem to resolve the loose threads or move the story line forward. That is until the current episode.

    A couple of reviews below:
    ‘Game of Thrones’ Season 6, Episode 4 Review: ‘Book of the Stranger’

    ‘Game of Thrones’ recap: It’s good to see you again

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. geoffhart1962
    Member

    Some day, a literary historian will unearth the letters between Martin and his editor(s) that explain the long delay since the last book. I confess, I'm dying to know what's going on behind the scenes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Steve R.
    Member

    Writer's block?
    Also who now controls the storyline?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. Marian
    Member

    Martin just posted an excerpt from the next one on his website http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. CWJ
    Member

    Don't forget, these novels are 1,000 pages long. It used to be a novel was around 200 pages, although these days 300-400 is not uncommon. Apparently there is inflation in novels as elsewhere.

    But arguably Martin's doorstoppers are equivalent to 3-5 novels. So it's not surprising it takes him 5-6 years to write it. That's like writing 3 novels two years each. From that point of view, he's really flying.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. geoffhart1962
    Member

    CWJ notes: "Don't forget, these novels are 1,000 pages long. It used to be a novel was around 200 pages, although these days 300-400 is not uncommon. Apparently there is inflation in novels as elsewhere."

    Has anyone calculated the inflation rate? Has book inflation sped up enough that we're facing a literary singularity within our lifteimes? Will eBooks save us because of their lesser mass, or will the electromagnetic effects of opening a 10,000-page book topple society through the EMP effect? *G*

    CWJ: "But arguably Martin's doorstoppers are equivalent to 3-5 novels. So it's not surprising it takes him 5-6 years to write it. That's like writing 3 novels two years each."

    A good developmental editor (which is to say, one with a long-term ironclad contract in one hand and a well-oiled horsewhip in the other) would lock him in a room (à la Misery) and force him to release one 400-word novel per year rather than a 1200-word novel every 5 years. Not incidentally, this would also earn much more money for both Martin and the publisher.

    My pet theory: Martin is suffering from a combination of (i) performance anxiety, via fear of not being able to rise to or above the level of previous books, and (ii) weak editors, who are unwilling to challenge him on his Sybil complex: "Look, George... we agree that these other 100 characters are fascinating. Just finish the damn series for the 10 main characters, and then come back and write a bunch of side stories. If not, we'll give [name redacted for fear of libel] her whip again... and none of us wants that. Well, she does... [ominous cracking sounds offstage]"

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. CWJ
    Member

    [Geoff: I think you mean 400/1200 *page* novels, not *word* novels. Although in the era of text, maybe soon 1200 words *will* be considered a novel.]

    Actually, I think the editors are just too fearful to killing the golden goose. It happens to many fantastically successful authors. Look at J.K. Rowling, whose novels exploded in length after her books took off.

    Years ago I actually estimated from the geometric progression of Rowling's first four books that book 7 would be 10,000-13,000 pages in length. Luckily, that didn't quite happen.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. geoffhart1962
    Member

    CWJ: I meant to do that: I was hinting that after the surface layers of the book are blown away by the supernova explosion that results when the book's internal heat can no longer keep the covers apart, the remaining mass collapses into a neutron book, which is much smaller. *G*

    Yes indeed, "pages", not "words". D'oh! That'll learn me to post before the coffee's kicked in.

    That being said: Though it's a fun party game to describe any given novel in only 400 words. I used to play that game with my authors when they protested it wasn't possible to describe their journal paper within the confines of a 200-word Abstract. I did it in 50 in most cases. Of course, then you're simplifying to the point of one of those F&SF competitions that are so much fun.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. Marian
    Member

    Related to the above, Martin asked Stephen King how he writes so fast http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/23/george-rr-martin-stephen-king

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Marian
    Member

    Here is the original Game of Thrones discussion. Steve R. I see that a year ago, you felt it was time for GoT to conclude.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. Steve R.
    Member

    Saw Season 7 Episode 1. Enjoyed it.

    **** spoiler alert ***

    I was quite taken aback in disbelief when I saw Daenerys arrive at what appears to be an abandoned castle Dragonstone. I couldn't imagine that castle not being seized (as a cheap conquest) by one of the other houses. Maybe I missed something and/or a subsequent episode will explain why the castle was not occupied.

    I did some searching. Fortunately, it seems that others also noted the apparent lack of people occupying Dragonstone.

    Is Dragonstone unoccupied after Stannis Baratheon's defeat?

    Dunno wrote: "Daenerys indeed chose Dragonstone as her landing base. She entered it without any resistance and found the palace uninhabited. Cersei and Jamie anticipated this but apparently they lacked resources to seize control over the island and resist Daenerys' landing.

    ...

    However, episode 1 doesn't say anything about the rest of Dragonstone, meaning, we still don't know if there are any rebel armies left hiding there or if the island is completely deserted."

    Maybe a fuller explanation will be provided in a subsequent episode.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. LukeJackson
    Member

    I think it's heavily implied that anyone who would've set up shop in Dragonston in Stannis Baratheon's absence would have gotten the heck out of Dodge upon hearing Khaleesi's fleet was en route.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  18. Marian
    Member

    Martin just won an award from a historical society along with Larry McMurty which I find odd. http://hwa.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=2507&club_id=735549&item_id=1233&pst=4149

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. Marian
    Member

    Lord of the Rings as the new Game of Thrones? I think it's a bad idea but it's under consideration, i.e. a tv series https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/3/16605272/lord-of-the-rings-jrr-tolkien-game-of-thrones-amazon-studios

    Posted 8 months ago #
  20. Steve R.
    Member

    @Marian. So sad when an existing story, such as "Lord of the Rings" goes into ad nauseam remakes. It seems to me that most film makers who push for a remake are not really interested in making a better story. I would even go so far as to say, that some of those pushing for a remake are not true fans of the product that they are making and that alienation shows in a negative sense.

    That leads to my perpetual question of why we even have remakes. There are so many great Science Fiction stories that have not yet been put into film. Instead of rehashing "old" stories find "new" material that has not yet been put into film and put onto the "big" screen.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  21. Marian
    Member

    I agree, Steve. There are so many stories out there that could be the next Game of Thrones. Plus, LOTR doesn't lend itself to that treatment unless maybe you went back to the early history and it's pointless. Plus what the studios are forgetting is that Game of Thrones wasn't a sequel or a remake. It became popular because it brought something new. And of course, that's what both Harry Potter and LOTR did.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  22. Marian
    Member

    No Winds of Winter this year. Instead, a side novel. They're not listening to you, Geoff (Your comments upthread) https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/entertainment/winds-winter-book-release/index.html

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. Steve R.
    Member

    Seems that Martin has gone-off on a side tangent. I've been seeing ads on TV for "Nightflyers". I guess that it explains were Martin has been expending his efforts. So much for Martin completing "Game of Thrones". Seems that the HBO writers have the storyline well in-hand.

    A movie was done in 1987. "Nightflyers". Seems that only 9% (Tomato rating) of the audience liked it. Thankfully, I do not recall ever seeing that movie.

    According to Wikipedia, Nightflyers, the novella, was written by Martin in 1980. If my database is correct, it appeared in the April 1980 issue of Analog. Again, I do not recall that story. I guess I will have to go digging into my collection to find it.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  24. Greg
    Member

    What doesn't kill us can still waste an hour and a half of our time. Let us begin with a less-than-inconspicuous info dump, followed by an irksome cliche! (Or would that be a more-than-inconspicuous info dump? The underlying logic of my mother-tongue sometimes eludes me.)

    Nightflyers, 1987

    Maybe he thinks they'll get it right this time.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  25. geoffhart1962
    Member

    I happened to be listening to the extended version of "The End", by The Doors, and was reminded of the following lines: "The killer awoke before dawn / He put his boots on / He took a face from the ancient gallery".

    Martin being a child of that era, it seems unlikely he could have missed hearing the song. I suspect that it planted a seed that became, many years later, Arya Stark.

    Posted 1 month ago #

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